Jo

Welcome to the Business and Sequins podcast. I'm your host, Jo Blowfield. This podcast is for any woman who wants inspiration, practical help, and a big load of sparkle and the three areas of business, health or wealth. I have real life conversations with women who share their journey, their ups, downs, wins and challenges. If you want a bit of sparkle in your life through these great woman stories, then thank you so much for joining the Business and Sequins podcasts. 

On today's show, I've got the lovely job of interviewing Helen and Karyn from McRae and Lynch Interior Design. Helen and Karyn started the design business after graduating from full time study at the Design Center in Enmore. That's where they first met over the years of the business that has evolved from a small part time suburban design team while bringing up the families into a well established and successful design company. Since setting up the design studio in Sydney, they've covered all facets of design, including residential, commercial, medical and hospitality design. Hospitality design actually landed them with a stint of designing cruise ships for Carnival Australia, where they were thrown into the deep water designing, drafting and liaising with traders worldwide while managing the procurement of the designs throughout the dry dock fitouts. With vast knowledge and 25 plus years of experience in the design and construction industry, they've quickly learned that a thoughtful, thoroughly prepared and well documented design is the key to attaining a successful result. After hearing many of the clients reiterating the same line we wish you'd we'd found you sooner they were then inspired to put the knowledge out there develop their own online course in educating the home renovator builder on how to tackle the renovation with the confidence and clarity to achieve great results having been approached by and written articles for various magazines, newspapers and other platforms that's further enhanced the desire to share their experience knowledge and advice with renovators and the like. 

This is led by both Karyn and Helen, and hosts regular live chat sessions called conversations with designers, where they invite guest experts within the industry to chat about various topics of interest along with tips and advice. Karyn and Helen live in Sydney on the east coast of Australia, where over the years the girls have guided and assisted hundreds of people in achieving fabulous results with the new builds and renovations. 

Wow. Welcome to the Business and Sequins podcast, Karyn and Helen. So happy to have you here. 

Karyn

Thank you. 

Helen

Thanks so much for having us. 

Jo

Oh my gosh, I'm so excited about you, too. So I met Karyn and Helen, over 12 months ago now with the Empire Builders Mastermind. And these two joined that I think did you join at the same time as me.

Karyn

Now we were a little bit before. We were one of Tina's original group. So yeah, so well, I think we've been retained. We've known Tina for about nearly 20 years now. So I think we've been in the group for three years now. 

Jo

So yeah. Wow. So yeah, you guys have been there for a lot longer. But you guys just, you welcomed me with open arms. And I just absolutely love what you guys are doing in business. So I'm so excited to be able to share with you today. And just to find out, you know a bit about your journey. So at the beginning, I told the viewers, you know, your bio. I've given them your bio, but I would love to hear in your own words as well. You know, how you've come to what has brought you to where you currently are, and how you started in business and down the journey. But most of all being best friends working together and how that relationship works. So Helen, you tell us a bit about you. I know that you said that you met when you were in Enmore, but I'd love to hear in your own words, if you want to just tell us a little bit about your history.

Helen

Okay, sure, Jo. Yeah. So I was actually originally a primary school teacher many, many years ago and looking for a career change. So I applied for the design center in MO, which is where I met Karyn. So Karyn likes to tell the story that on our very first day of arriving, we're all in this room and obviously they were giving us the rundown on what to expect and what have you. And it was pretty crowded. Some people were standing and Karyn walked in late normally. I'm the one that's late, not Karyn, and she walked in late and there was a seat next to me and I just waved to her and said, Come and sit down here. And that's pretty much where it all started. I guess we just clicked from the get go, I think, you know, sometimes you meet people and you just feel like you've known them forever. And I think it's been like that for Karyn and I, and that's probably where our friendship developed first, and blossomed from there. And, throughout the course, you know, as the years went on, we do projects together if you are partnered up to work on an assignment. And we seem to work really well together as well, we just kind of would bounce ideas off one another. So once we finished studying, Karyn went off and worked for a couple of architects part time, thrown in the deep end of the design, because it was a smallish company. So she was the only designer, their interior designer, and I fell pregnant my last year. So I kind of went off and started my family, we were still in touch. And then we do little projects together. So while Karyn was working for the architects part time, you know, the AI project would come up, and we would just work on these projects together. And that's how our business evolved. Then Karyn started having her family and it sort of went on from there. And as our children grew older, and our families grew, the business slowed down a little bit, but then it also built up once the responsibilities of our families kind of started to ease up a little bit, because for both of us, our families are really important. And we both had partners out there, bringing in the money, I guess. So it was more of keeping our foot in the door. We love what we do. So it never felt like work. So we were lucky to have the benefit of bringing up our family being there for our children, as well as running a business and enjoying that side of it and building up that experience. So to where we are today. It's very full time and full on and our families are all grown up. So we throwing ourselves 100% in.

Jo

Yeah, that's incredible. That really is incredible. Um, Karyn, How many children do you have between yourselves? You and Helen? How many children have you got?

Karyn

Okay, Helen has three girls, ranging from 28 to 24. If I got Yeah, I think I've got that right. And then I have one of each. Isabella she's turning 23. And Corbin is turning 21 on the first of September. So between us. five children. So it was a bit of a juggle with the kids, as Helen said when they were younger, but yeah, five between us. Yeah, gosh.

Jo

So you've really, you know, you've grown your business. Well, you've had your families and you've grown your families as well at the same time. Have you always been McRae and Lynch?

Karyn

Yes, we have. Yes, yeah. My married name is actually Membrey. But my maiden name is McRae. So when Hill and I started getting together, Wayne and I weren't very back then. So my father was in the construction industry. So that's he was a construction project manager working on Centrepoint Tower and all that sort of some big, big projects in Sydney. So that's where I sort of got my start, you know, looking to the construction industry, dad would have us on building sites up and down ladders helping around at home. So yeah, I took, you know, a bit of interest from the construction world from dad so that I, he, I'm one of three girls as well. So when my dad passed earlier this year, that McRae name stopped, so I'm kind of a little bit proud that, you know, I kept that name. So McRae. And she's a little nod to my dad along the way.

Jo

Oh, that's gorgeous. I love it. I love it. And so do you want to just give the listeners just a little idea of what kind of projects you do at the moment. 

Karyn

We work on quite a variety of projects like it's sort of ebbs and flows with the economy. And we tend to get, say, we've done medical, dental, we do a lot of residential. We've also done would you restaurants or that sort of stuff. But we also had a stint doing cruise ship fit out for five years. So that was a real juggle for Helen and I, the kids were a little bit younger. So I think at the time Corbin being the youngest of the five children, he was about 1011 at the time. So Helen and I would be caught up to, you know, jump on a plane gone, you know, do a site survey of a ship that had dropped in Auckland over your way. So there we rely on parents and friends to help us juggle because the kids were still at school at that stage. So but that was a lot. That was a lot of fun during cruise ship days and once we sort of had tackled that any project for Helen and I is honestly nothing's too hard, like design is design. It's problem solving and just the limitations of a site or a specific project and just that's the challenge that we sort of, you know, end up resolving but yeah, residential, medical, dental and cruise ship. So quite a variety we've done.

Helen

We try not to, to niche out, we've been told several times that we should stick to sort of some kind of a nation of design, whether it's hospitality or residential, or what have you, we tend to think the opposite. Because like Karyn said, design is very, it's the same principles no matter what you're applying it to. So we feel that if we were to just niche our services within the residential, or just any nation, within medical, there are quite specifics that you need to know and understand, but we feel like it, it just kind of narrows your perspective and view of design. And I think chopping and changing between a few different areas really gets you thinking, and it prevents you from becoming a bit stale. So you're able to kind of think outside the square a little bit more, I guess. So. And it's interesting for me to keep it keeps us interested and passionate.

Jo

Yeah. At which point do you get involved with the bills? Do Oh, gosh, right at the beginning, or is it sort of later on?

Karyn

That's, that's the way to be honest, not just for us. But for the client. In particular, it's best if we're involved from the very inception of design like this, there's quite a few projects where clients have walked through the door. And we're a little bit late to the party to say, as to say, but of course, we offer our services and help where we can. But if, if you get the builder, the architect and the designer all together, the very inception of a project, then the outcome far exceeds, walking for a hill and a night walking halfway.

Jo

Well, I'm home, how does it feel to end? When you see it all come to a cruise ship? That to me, that is just such a big project? How does it feel at the end, when you see it come to fruition? And you see it all come together? How does that feel? 

Helen

Oh, gosh,look, all our projects, whether it's cruise ship, or residential, whether it's big or small, I think the key for us is if if we have if our clients are happy, and we can see that they're, you know, just over the moon, about their, their space, that makes us happy. 

Karyn

We've done it. 

Helen

Exactly. And that's what it's all about is that end result, it's about all about the client, and achieving what they're hoping to achieve. So that makes us happy. But you mentioned cruise ships, I must say, that was pretty exciting.

Karyn

It was exhausting.

Helen

But it sounds like one of those was like a renovation on steroids. Because as you know, everything has to happen within that space of a week or two weeks that the ship is in drydock. And you stay on the ship, you eat on the ship, you sleep on the ship, you do not leave the ship, unless you're running to Bunnings to grab some extra bits and pieces for whoever's putting together whatever it is. And it's very hands on and to watch all that, that renovation and all your time and effort into preparing and planning and putting the drawings together and scheduled finishes and coordinating, you know, furniture items and watching them sort of get lifted from drydock from the dock side by a crane in containers onto that ship and then everything it's all systems go. It's quite an experience. Yeah. And it's exhausting. You want your walking zombies to be the very first drydock. I think we both actually lost weight so that by the end of the drydock our pants were literally falling off us. And you just do things to get the momentum moving. There's no you can't just say, Oh no, I can't do that. You have to think on your feet. And you have to go. Okay, we've got an issue here. How are we going to do it? How are we going to make it happen and you just do it to the point where the night before the ship was going to sail with a whole crew. Passengers everything. Karyn and I are looking at it going oh my God, this is that construction site. How on earth is this all gonna come together in the morning and welcome all the passengers and it's just it's 24 seven. And we were there gluing pebbles into the tops of that just to help it all happen. And we had gloves with a glue dripping office we had to get like some of the guys that we were working with to sort of hoist our heads up, because it'd be all these crew just standing there watching every time we bent over. So I mean it was a lot of fun and it was very exhausting. But like Karyn said earlier you know once you've done that you feel like you can deal with anything and handle anything. So yeah, it's still fun, we still get a lot of joy out of what we do. Absolutely.

Jo

I think that's one of the key things is when you've got joy, and when you're passionate about what you're doing, it just makes life so much easier. But, you know, in order to be able to complete a project like that, you have to be very organized. Are you both as organized as each other? 

Karyn

I think quick. Yeah,I think we bring different aspects to the business. Like, we synchronize, we click, we just work really well together. But yes, you definitely have to be super organized. There's lots of, you know, back in that day, it was lots of note writing and stuff. But there's so many fantastic apps and programs that we use, but you know, we have to have even that during the cruise ship work now. But you know, with all our other projects, we have to have like a weekly meeting and you know, run through what each other's doing check in with each other, see where the projects are at listed all we have like a good old traditional whiteboard where we write everything out, we also have, you know, programs that we use. So yes, there's a lot of organization that goes on behind the scenes, and we're pretty much our business is deadline driven. So you have to be organized, you cannot miss a deadline, because the clients have expectations, and you've made this commitment to them. So yes, a lot of organizing goes on. Yeah,

Jo

I love the fact that you're best friends, and that you've been working together for so long. I mean, I've worked with my husband now for 17 years. So I know that you have your ups and downs in any relationship, how have you made it work, being best friends working together? You know, how have you made it work? Karyn, how have you made it work?

Karyn

Helen and I, I think we have the same sort of, you know, goals and aspirations and family life like it in the very beginning. And to this day, family's always been the priority with the business and the business is built around that. And we've maintained the friendship and the business, I think, because basically we have respect for one another and mutual respect for one another's talents, skills, you know, who we are as humans, I guess. And, you know, it's not always, you know, of course, it's a bit of a roller coaster, sometimes, you know, works chaotic and hectic and you're tired, and you're a bit rundown, you might get a little bit snappy, but I think we're aware of when one another or when the other is not a peak, if you know what I mean. And yeah, step in and take note of that. And, and, you know, like I said, before we bring a cup of tea to the desk and say, do you know do you want to talk to and have a chat and then get on with work. So just be mindful of how the other ones are feeling? And I think we've done that, throughout our friendship in our business is just being aware of our feelings on that particular day or that particular week.

Jo

Yeah, I think I think you're so right about, you know, when one hands down, you pick, you know, the other one picks the other person up, and it can be a lot of fun, a little bit like, you know, a pendulum every now and then ups and downs. But I find if you're able to pick the other person out, then you know, your relationship really can weather a lot of storms. Yes. Helen, do you have anything to add to this?

Helen

Pretty much what Karyn said is, is how we function and operate. And I think, you know, like she said, we're aware of when the other ones, not, you know, feeling the best or in the best of moods. And at times, you know, when we're both feeling a bit crappy and, and a bit snappy, we will have a bit of a snap at one another. But I think we both like she said, we've got that mutual respect, and we both kind of know, okay, I just need to back off for now. And sometimes that works as well. But I think you know, like any relationship, you've just gotta have that respect, you've got to constantly look out for one another. And sing each other's praises as well, because you want to feel like you're adding value to the relationship to the business. If one will take on the workload if the other ones you know, not not coping or whatever. You know, sometimes even some on the odd occasion, thankfully, it doesn't happen very often. Sometimes, one will start a project with a particular client. And for some reason, that relationship between client and designer has gone wrong. And there's a bit of tension between the two, then the other one will step in and go Okay, I'll take over from this one from now on, which is kind of why we keep across each other's projects as well. So we're often running ideas by one another. To have that little bit of reassurance, even having the other person in the same room while you're working. Obviously not at the moment, we tend, we tend to think aloud so you know, we'll be working on a project and we'll be going on a should I put this here we ask ourselves questions externally, like verbalize it the other one or go Oh, what are you talking to me or are you just no No, no, I'm just talking to myself. It's alright, I've answered the question. So just having someone there just to hear you, you know, banter on is supportive. And I think some people might find that very distracting when they're working. But I think because Karyn and I both think that way. It works. It seems. Yeah, yeah,

Jo

I love that so much. And I love that you're both able to be, you know, open with each other and vulnerable. And you've definitely got each other's backs. And you know, I love all of that. I think that's just solid building blocks for a great relationship. And I was just gonna say, how has COVID been with your business? Because there are a lot of elements to your business, which is face to face. So how has, what kind of impact has COVID had on your business?

Karyn

Recently, it's been a little bit tough, because we're in like high lockdown, I guess, is what you call it. And, Helen, I've only seen a resume for the last three weeks going into our fourth week now. So there was also the construction lockdown. So there's a lot of a few of our projects, we haven't even been able to start because we haven't been able to go into those. Those areas. Meetings are now you know, a lot of them are done via zoom. But for us, there's also the need to get back to seeing those clients. So we're just adjusting, adapting. It would be great if we could meet face to face, but it's just not possible these days. So it's just making the changes and doing as best as we can. To meet the client's needs is just not the same as meeting face to face, though. So yeah, it's a struggle at the moment.

Jo

Yeah, definitely. Because your clients, I guess, have to be receptive to wanting to meet online. Yes, that's right. Not everyone knows. Still not everyone has still mastered the art of Zoom.

Karyn

Yes, that's right. Yeah. A few people have actually said, let's wait until this is all over like with this some potential new jobs out there, three or four of them at the moment. And they're all just this is all too much to deal with. Because you know, you don't know what's going on in their lives at the same time. So we're respectful of that as well. So yeah, that's fine. Well, you know, people, some people want that face to face, like you're saying they don't want to do the Zoom thing. So a few of those have been put off till later in the year, which is totally fine with us.

Jo

That certainly has made a lot of businesses have to think outside the square, and new ways of doing things. And with regards to thinking outside the square, I hear that you've got an evergreen course that you're putting online. Is that right?

Helen

Yeah, definitely. Yes, we were actually doing well, it starts tomorrow night, we've got an online course that we're doing live. After that goes live, we'll be putting it back towards putting it on our website as an evergreen, because obviously, with this sort of advice that we're giving, not everybody is renovating at the same time of year. So we were offering a live version of it for those that want that interaction. And then we'll be putting that same course on as an evergreen for those that need it when they need it. Because some people that were planning their renovation now can't be doing it because of COVID. So you never know what's around the corner. So basically, what inspired us to do this was the simple fact that people come to us unsure of where to begin, like, we get that phone call, you know, we answer the phone, and it's our Hi, I'm thinking of doing a renovation, or I'm going to be able to you home, I'm not sure where to start, I don't know who to talk to, is it the builder or the architect? Or? Or what do you guys do? How do you help you know, I've been told to come to you. So they're really lost as to where to start. And like we were saying earlier, you need to be really organized to do what we're doing. And you need to be able to collaborate with a whole lot of other professionals. So for an architect and interior designer and a builder and all the other professionals that consultants that come in on a project, you need to be able to coordinate them all and they all need to be able to be focused on on the same path that that you are on. But sadly a lot of clients come to us because they think they know where they're heading. They think they know what they want, but they haven't put enough time and thought into what they want. And then what happens is they get very distracted by either reality TV shows or Melvin's willingly. Yeah, well meaning friends and family saying, Oh, you should do this, you should do that. But every single project is different. You might have the same intention, you might want to upsize your home and there might be half a dozen people with that same intention but your individual needs are slightly different. So that's what this course is all about is really getting you to look very carefully and very close. At what outcomes you're trying to achieve with your renovation or new Brill project, getting you to focus on that. And then and really doing your research and background, making sure that you understand what council restrictions are in place with your home, what you know, if there's any special things like fire, you might be in a fire zone that that could actually blow your budget by a couple of 100 100 to 100 grand more than what you're expecting. People don't really have a good, they kind of know what their budget is, but they're not sure if that's going to be in line with what they try and they will achieve as well. I guess that's that for him. Yeah, yes, yeah, we have. So it's, it's all of the things that you need to put into place with your renovation in that preparation stage. And then following through all the different phases of your renovation right through to construction, and putting things into place that's going to actually save them time, money, stress, prevent their project from, you know, their budgets from blowing out. Delays that happened because the client or the renovators are not sure of what fittings or fixtures that they need or want, and then the builders are waiting for an answer. It's, it's to put things into place to give them the confidence and understanding of the processes so that when they're asked a question, and they're asked to make a decision based on whatever it is, there's going to be hundreds of decisions that you're going to have to make throughout, at least they're able to make an informed decision, and know that what they're deciding is for the benefit of the outcome that they're trying to achieve. So it is really important that people do this. But unfortunately, a lot of people don't realize that they need this tool. It's during the construction phase, and it's too late. You can't turn back. So yeah, so that's kind of what inspired us to do it. It's not a how to design course, there's a lot a lot of that out there. And yes, that's, that's helpful. We do touch on your style, and you know how to pick the right style for you or whatever. But it's more about that real, getting deep into the planning and the preparing and putting things into place. And having a strategy in place that will get you from the start right through to the finish with minimal issues and, and avoiding mistakes and things that you're going to avoid any regrets, really, because it's a one off thing. And it's a big, big investment for most people and you want to get it right, you really want to get it right the first time around, because there's no turning around and going like that. Let's just rip it all out and start again. So that's what it's all about. 

Jo

I love it. I love it, and how and what was it called? What is the course called?

Helen

So it's called a Masterplan for a Successful Renovation or New Build. So we started our first module tomorrow night. The doors are still open. It'll be closing tomorrow at 5pm. And yeah, so like if people want to jump onto our website, it's all there. Just take the Course button and have a little bit more of a read about it. We go into all the modules that we've got, we talk about what each week's handlers are. We have three amazing guest experts. We've got a builder, Luke Payne from Evernote Constructions down, he's there to talk about all things building, how that relates to your budget, what you can do to help the builder get his job done efficiently. And on time, we've got Tara Solberg, who is a founder and knows the stores, near and far, homeware stores. Now she's also in our group, Her Empire Builder, and she has an amazing talent when it comes to styling. And she'll be joining us for that one. And then we've also got Michelle Susan, she's a construction lawyer and has been an adjudicator and knows very well what can go wrong with your renovation and she's there to show us how to do our due diligence with a builder. We all get referrals for a builder. And that's great and recommendations are really a really good place to start. But you still need to run all the right checks, you still need to know that your builder is fully licensed, that they are fully insured and that they're actually equipped, both financially and skill wise to carry out your specific project. So we've covered all bases.

Jo

I love it. So for anyone that misses the law Yeah, just in case they don't make it in time, although every listen to this after the launch has closed, the course will still be available on your website right?

Karyn

Yeah, absolutely, it will be. So it's going to be evergreen after this, it'll be on our website. And all the modules are uploaded into a platform where people can do it at their own pace. And as Helen said before, not everybody's ready to jump into a renovation or a new build, starting tomorrow night. So that's why we've decided to make it evergreen. And then that way people can jump in and do the course when it suits them when they're ready to renovate or build, it's probably a good thing to do it a couple of months before, you know your approach to build or edge is, like Elon said, as we call it, the pre design phase. So yeah, it'll be available. evergreen,

Jo

Great. And because evergreen, and for some of the listeners who are listening, just in case, you don't know what the word evergreen means. It's a term that online course creators use. And it just means that the course will be available on the website all the time for whenever you need it. And also I just wanted to double check. So I've got a lot of listeners and New Zealand. So is it available for New Zealanders as well, they can jump on and go through the course as well. 

Karyn

Absolutely. That's why we've sort of there's nothing specifically related to any Australian standards or anything like that. It's in depth. But generally anyone could pick it up, anyone could pick it up in the UK, or the US the information advice, what we're giving is pretty much universal. So yeah, anybody, anybody can jump in and do it through the course.

Helen

Yeah, you would just apply your due diligence checks, and your Council checks with whatever counsel or whatever, you know, organizing body that you have within your country or your stage. So even here in Australia, statewide, things are slightly different. So you just apply those principles and go through all the processes. And yep, it's building is pretty much standard process.

Jo

And I guess for anyone that is wanting to save money, time, or stress is the course to do absolutely,

Karyn

Absolutely. Quite a few, quite a few builders that have looked at it have said to us off. I wish every client picked this course up and did it before they came to us. So that's what the builders are saying. It's such a time saving and money saving thing to do.

Jo

I love that you've picked a course you've made. But you've made it for that, you know, step before all the fluff and everything like that, because you everyone can get skipped. So taken away from picking colors for the walls and things like that. And you know, but you guys have made something really fundamental that if people go through the course and they pay attention to the details of your course then it really is setting them up to save, you know, money, time or stress. I love that, well done. Ladies. That is 

Karyn

Thanks, Jo. 

Jo

We're coming to the end of our podcast now. I hope that the listeners have enjoyed listening to you women as much as you guys as much as I have. But before we go, I do ask anyone that comes on the show two quick questions. So I'll ask Karyn first. Karyn, if you were to pick a color of the sequins to represent your personality, what color sequins would you be?

Karyn

Red is my favorite color. I don't use it. It's not a great color to use in a lot of design. But it's fun. Yeah, I'm drawn to red.

Jo

I love it. Absolutely love it. And on a scale of one to 10 so one being one sequin and 10. Bang, you're dropping glitter all over the place. Everywhere you go. How do you rate your life currently?

Karyn

COVID is taking a tiny shine on it. So I'm going to say a nine. Yeah, I love the life I'm having. Yeah, I've got a wonderful partner, husband, family, the best business partner, best girl friend sitting over there on zoom with me. So life is good, apart of Covid, love it.

Jo

Love it. Nine on the second scale. So Helen, if I could ask you the same question. So if you've got to pick a color of a sequins to represent your personality, what would that be?

Helen

Gosh. Maybe green? I don't know. I just find green, I don't know, a calming sort of color. Just something that draws me to that. I'm not sure why, but yeah, I like lots of colors. And I find that question really difficult to answer. Because I'm all these colors when you're asking Karyn or popping into my hero this but I like that. But it's a bit like our cause you need to focus so I'd have to say at the moment anyway, green seems to be my thing. 

Jo

I love it. I love it. And then on the sequins scale of one to 10.

Helen

Yeah, I have to agree with Karyn. I'd say around a nine there's always room for improvement. And you know, and for the same reasons. I've got an amazing family. I've got an amazing business partner. I love what I do. So, as I've always said, I don't think I've ever remembered a day that I dread going into work. I've liked it since my teaching days.

Karyn

I think others may have had a lot of fun with Helen, don't worry, we always have a good laugh. We take our business very seriously. But as Helen always says, We don't take ourselves seriously. So if you walk to the office, Jo, if you were here in Australia, in Sydney, you'd often see us sitting here singing, spinning his butt, designing great places at the same time.

Jo

I love it for creatives. Well, thank you so much. I'm sure that the listeners have learnt lots and I hope that anyone that is listening jumps on has a look at your course that you've got, because it sounds amazing. So thank you so much to both of you for joining me on the Business and Sequins podcast. I've absolutely loved having you here. And I've loved hearing about your business and your journey together. And yeah, thank you so much and well done for hanging in with all of the lockdowns, I'm sure it will finish soon. And you're doing a great job. And I can't wait to see what you guys do next. 

Karyn

Yeah, we're having a lot of fun. Yeah, I

Helen

I really enjoyed it. I appreciate you taking the time to stop and have a chat with us today.

Karyn

Thank you so much. And I'm just gonna say one last thing and lucky that our paths crossed. Jo, you're such a beautiful, gorgeous, yes, amazing businesswoman, yourself so blessed that we've met you.

Jo

Thank you. But before we go, just tell the listeners as well that I will pop your link to your course and website and everything down in the show notes. So if you're listening and you want to come back, it'll all be in the show notes. But yeah, thank you, I feel the same about both of you. So I love I love you too, as well. So thank you so much. 

Helen 

Thank you, Jo, take care. 

Karyn

Thank you. Take care.

Jo

Thank you so much for joining me on this episode of Business and Sequins. Thank you so much for letting me be the voice in your ear or the noise in your ear for this last little bit. I hope that you've managed to find some form of inspiration or motivation, or even that put a sparkle that you're looking for in the stories and conversations that you've just heard. Don't forget, if you're wanting a bit of help, and business, health or wealth, then don't forget that we've got our Business and Sequins membership. So thanks again for joining me and I look forward to having you join me on the next episode.